The "No Employee" Franchise Model? (Back Nine Indoor Golf Review)

This is a transcript from Episode 25 of The Franchise Champion Show. Listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.

 Alan: My guest today is VP of Development for The Back Nine, an indoor golf concept that's exploding across America. In 2023, they had 15 locations. Today they have 140 open with over 300 in the pipeline. Last year alone, they signed 312 new franchisees. The model is compelling: no employees, 24/7 operations, proprietary software running everything. They're exploding in the US and now expanding into Canada, the UK, and Australia. Darren Wilstead, welcome to the Franchise Champion Show.

Darren: Yeah, thanks. I appreciate you having me. Excited to be here.

Alan: I'm excited to hear more about this concept and find out all the details. But first, can you tell us a little bit about how you got into franchising? What's your background?

Darren: Yeah. So my background is actually medical device sales. I got out of college, where I played baseball, and got into the medical device field. I actually spent 13 years at a company called Zimmer Biomet — a hip and knee replacement company. I sold there for quite some time and had a lot of success. Then we had an opportunity to move back home to St. George, and I was still with Zimmer at the time.

Will — our CEO and founder of The Back Nine — I know his family really well, so I started playing golf with him. Got involved in talking to him about what he was doing as an attorney, and I knew he owned a standalone Back Nine. So we started talking about that, about how they were dipping their toes into franchising, and I said, "Hey, if you ever need someone to go and sell for you, I'd love to do that." I jokingly said, "You can't afford me, so just let me know." And we kind of went on our way.

Then we got into some serious talks — "Hey, are you serious about this? Is this something you'd want to do?" And I said, "Look, man, I have no idea about franchising, but I can follow up with people, I can talk to people, and I can sell. I'd love the opportunity."

So I went to my wife and told her I wanted to leave my stable job with a 401k and all that good stuff.

Alan: Oh, I'm sure that went over really well.

Darren: Yeah. And she's like, "You're leaving to go to nothing." And I said, "Yeah, I'm going to be in golf, and I'll be happy every day that I wake up." And it's been true — I've been happy every day I've woken up. When you're not dealing with hospital systems or orthopedic surgeons in a tense situation, it's kind of nice. I get to relax a little, deal with people, talk to them about growing their wealth and their networks. It's a joy. It really is fun to be a part of The Back Nine.

I joined in 2023. At that time there were 12 locations that were part of The Back Nine. And like you said, we actually just sold our 440th location today.

Alan: Oh my gosh.

Darren: And we're growing quickly, so it's been pretty fun.

Alan: That's amazing. Okay, so let's back up a little bit. You were having this conversation with the founder — what was that like? A lot of people don't really talk about how franchises get started, the genesis of it. What did those early conversations look like?

Darren: Yeah. So we felt we had a good product. We had a good software system that we'd built out that allowed our franchisees to rely on it for day-to-day operations while they focused on growing the business. We knew we had that, but we also knew we didn't fully know what we had. There were a ton of conversations around the strategic approach — how are we going to enter markets? How do we maximize lead flow and get people into our facilities?

What we finally landed on is: our software takes care of the day-to-day. The ability for this to really run itself because we don't have any employees. And that was going to change the market, because when we first started, everything else was very employee-heavy. All the golf simulators had restaurants and bars tied to them. When we came to market, it was just a golf simulator with software that allowed you to have no employees. We knew we were different enough to make a splash — we just didn't know what that would look like.

We all left our full-time jobs hoping this was going to work. There were a lot of months where we didn't have many leads, and we were scraping by. There were a couple of months where we didn't sell anything, and I had Will and William Brady looking at me like, "What are you doing, dude?" But we figured it out, and I think it really comes down to the processes we've built into the system.

The no-employee model makes it easy for someone with a full-time job to run and manage this business. Not saying this is a hands-off business by any means — you have to be fully engaged. But it definitely creates a different kind of environment where you can say, "Hey, I can still have a full-time job, go out and grow The Back Nine, sell memberships and corporate memberships, and bring in extra income."

Alan: Yeah, that's really cool. Okay, so we should take one more step back — tell us about The Back Nine. Who are your customers? Not the franchise owners, but the people actually coming in to use the facility.

Darren: Yeah. So The Back Nine was built for the golfer. That's why it was built. Will is a scratch handicap — he's a really good golfer. He beats me every time we go out. I still go, I don't know why I enjoy losing money to him.

He wanted to play more golf. Being an attorney with a young family, golf was how he relieved stress, and it was at night. So as he built this out, it was built around what he personally wanted, and it just fit what the golfer needs. For those who love golf and want to improve, this is the perfect setup. No one's watching over you. You come and go as you please. It's a 24/7 access facility. We get people coming in at 4 a.m., we get people coming in at midnight, working on their game when they can.

This can be a practice facility — you see your numbers, you improve your game — or it's a place where you bring in some buddies, hang out, and compete on a simulator. This is true golf.

In the beginning, we had to sell people on what indoor golf really was. But if you look at the statistics, the indoor golf industry just keeps growing year over year. The number of golfers playing both indoor and outdoor has increased by 65% over the last two years. They're feeding each other now.

Our end user is someone passionate about golf. We're not the entertainment side of things. You can come for a date night, but we don't have a server bringing you food and drinks. This is really built for golfers to come in, play, and compete.

Alan: Yeah, that is really cool. I'm one of those people who plays both indoor and outdoor. It's so nice when it's raining or conditions aren't great, or maybe you just can't get a tee time or don't have four or five hours for a full round. You can just go in and practice for an hour.

I love the distinction between this concept and the ones that came before it — the highly entertainment-based, food-driven concepts. There's definitely a place for that, but I love this as its own niche, built specifically for the golfer who wants to practice and get better. And being able to go at any time — that's pretty amazing.

So how does the booking system work?

Darren: So they can book online or through an app we've built. They go in, book a tee time that works for them. And the beauty of how we've built this is we don't limit anyone on the number of tee times they can hold in a month or in a week. It's strictly 24/7 golf access.

What we do limit is how many bookings you can hold at one time. Our highest tier allows two bookings at once; everything else is one. So if I book for tonight, I'll get a text and an email with a link to the door. That link opens the door 15 minutes before your tee time, and when your tee time is over, it expires. To get back in, you'd have to book another tee time.

But once you complete a tee time, you can book again the very next minute. We don't restrict weekdays vs. weekends or charge extra for peak hours — if you're a member, you're a member. Full access. We want our golfers to go play whenever there's an open bay. Hit for 30 minutes or three hours, whatever you want.

Luckily, the golf world tends to be pretty reliable when it comes to etiquette. We almost never have issues with people on the wrong bay. When I've been in and someone's still there, it's always, "Hey, I just need to finish this hole." That's great — finish the hole and we'll jump in after you.

Alan: That's really awesome. So let's talk about it from a franchise owner perspective — what does getting started look like, and what does day-to-day operation look like down the road?

Darren: That's the beauty of joining a franchise — whether it's The Back Nine or McDonald's, they're there to help you from day one, with continued education throughout.

What we love here is we have so many processes in place to help franchisees be successful. From the moment they buy in, they meet with our project management team to get their location set up, get it approved, and make sure the simulators fit in the space. From there, they're assigned to a customer success manager who helps them build out their website, set up their membership tiers, start selling memberships and corporate accounts, and develop their marketing tactics — all the way until they open their doors.

Once they open, that customer success manager stays with them for the next six months, coaching them through operations and making sure they're profitable in their area.

Our software takes away the operational side of the business, so our franchisees are tasked with going out, selling, and growing the business. Most of the time we're looking for people with marketing or sales backgrounds — or if not a formal sales background, at least someone who's not afraid to have conversations. That's really what sales is: not being afraid to talk to someone.

Those are the kinds of franchise owners we're looking for — people who love golf and want to go out and grow their business. Because that's the majority of what this business requires. As much as we want to say this is a semi-passive model, just like anything in life, sometimes it takes more than you think, and sometimes it takes less.

Alan: I want to take a quick pause here, because we're talking about a model that runs 24/7 without you being there. Most of you listening are thinking, "That's the dream — but will it work for me?" You have the capital and the drive, but filtering through thousands of concepts like this to find the one that actually makes sense for you is overwhelming.

That's exactly where I come in. I help aspiring business owners cut through the noise to find a path to financial and time freedom without the guesswork. I'll help you discover if a semi-absentee model like this is your perfect fit. And the best part is, my service is 100% free. If you're ready for a clear game plan for your exit, let's talk. You can book a 15-minute intro call using the link in the show notes, or just head over to athletetoowner.com/ready. All right, let's get back to the interview.

Alan: So what does the timeline look like? Someone signs an agreement and they're ready to go — how long until they actually open?

Darren: We're currently sitting at about seven months to get a facility open. Our biggest delay is usually the lease. Sometimes that drags things out — you might start talking to a landlord and two months later you're actually signing the lease. If we could get landlords a little more enthusiastic about moving quickly, it would help. But seven months is typically where we land.

That's plenty of time to get a construction team in there, get the work done, get our simulator company Full Swing installed, and get everything designed for the facility. We're always trying to shave time off that number, but seven months is where we are right now.

Alan: Got it. And what does it look like from a real estate standpoint — square footage, number of bays?

Darren: Typically our facilities are 3 to 4 bays — that's the majority of our locations. Square footage varies because we're not building buildings, we're finding space in Class B retail across a designated territory. We're looking at roughly 700 to 800 square feet per bay, which includes the hitting area, seating area, common areas, and bathrooms.

So a three-bay facility runs around 2,000 to 2,400 square feet, and a four-bay facility is roughly 2,700 to 3,200 square feet. It all depends on the layout, and our team works with you to make sure you can fit the number of bays you need to be profitable.

Alan: You mentioned earlier that this isn't a fully passive model. For someone who's in the corporate world and wants to keep their job but has maybe 20 hours a week to put into something on the side — is that doable, or are you really looking for people who want to go all in?

Darren: That's a great question. We have maybe a handful of franchisees — I could count them on one hand — who are full-time Back Nine. Everyone else has a full-time job. Most of them are doing their day-to-day work and spending time on The Back Nine on the side.

Like I said, there are going to be times when it requires more than 20 hours. But there are also times when you can go on vacation, forward the phone, and not worry about it — the software takes care of everything. You just need someone to go in and clean up and handle a few things. It's very flexible.

But you do have to go out and sell and market. For the most part, it's a robust enough business where if you want to do it full time with multiple locations, great. Or if one location alongside your 9-to-5 is the goal, that's very possible too.

Alan: Wow, yeah. And it's actually surprising that you only have a handful of full-time owners.

Darren: Yeah, it's very unusual.

Alan: So earlier I mentioned how fast you guys are growing. Talk to me about the international expansion — where are you at with that, and what's the plan?

Darren: Great question. The growth we've had is really unprecedented, especially in the franchise world. If you look at what most franchises sell in a year, we're now in that same ballpark. It's been a huge year, and we've already sold 40 deals so far this year — and we're in February.

As we looked at global expansion, one thing I wanted to make very clear internally: we cannot affect what's happening in the US. This is our bread and butter. So when the idea came to me and our board, the immediate response was, "We'll let Darren lead this as chief development officer, but it better not disturb what we're doing in the US."

As a leadership team, we sat down and said: we want to expand into Canada, Europe, and Australia — what's the best plan? What we did was hire country managers in each of those countries. Those country managers know they live on an island. They are not to use the US team unless it's approved by me and Dustin, our president of global expansion. They're building the business largely on their own, with the benefit of what we've already learned here — but we don't want to disturb what's working in the US.

I oversee all growth throughout the entire globe, which is pretty fun to see. We're starting to get a ton of interest in Canada, Australia, and the UK. We just launched the UK at the end of last year. Things are definitely picking up — but I want to make it clear for anyone considering a US franchise: the focus is still very much on the US.

Alan: Yeah, that's great for the owners here. Franchisors who grow too quickly and can't support their franchisees — that's a real concern. Good to know the focus is still on the US.

So one thing I didn't realize until you mentioned it is that you played college baseball. Tell us a little bit about that, and how sports and competitive training can prepare people to succeed in business.

Darren: Great question. I played high school baseball — that was my sport. But I actually left and served a two-year church mission, so I stepped away from all sports and school during that time. Then I came back and jumped into college baseball, which was difficult. I hadn't seen a fastball in a while — getting the timing back is tough.

I came back and played a little, but my focus eventually shifted. I realized, "Hey, this is probably not going to be reality," so I really started focusing on school and getting done.

But I think as you participate in athletics, you learn so much — whether you're winning or losing, whether you're a starter or the first guy off the bench. My daughter is going through that right now in her high school career, not getting the opportunity she wants, and we've been talking through how you deal with that. In life and in business, there are going to be challenges and things that feel unfair. What matters is how you handle them, and I think athletics teach you that.

High school was fun and games. Then you get to college and you realize — holy cow, this is a job. They don't care what's going on in your personal life. They just want results. And that's kind of like the business world, right? Just results. It's a good wakeup call for what the rest of life is going to be like.

Being the star athlete in high school and then going to college and suddenly having to battle for a spot — that taught me a lot, especially going into a competitive sales environment in orthopedics. There are a lot of talented people. You've just got to put your head down and go to work. Putting in the time and effort — that's what athletics taught me, and it translates to every aspect of life.

Alan: Yeah. And knowing you're not going to win every time you go out there, and being able to pick yourself back up — that's really what leads into sales, because you know you're not going to win 100% of the time. Being an athlete who's willing to lose and get back up and try again is the perfect segue into something like sales.

Darren: So true.

Alan: So for your owners out there — you've got a lot of people with other jobs, corporate careers, maybe operating multiple units. What's the difference between those who are just getting by and those who are really crushing it?

Darren: As I do final interviews and award territories — and we're lucky enough to be in the position where we're awarding franchises, not just selling them — I always tell candidates there are three things that separate our bottom 20% from our top 20%.

The first is following the franchise process. You joined a franchise for a reason. We actually operate corporate stores ourselves, so we know exactly what franchisees are going through. Follow the process. The ones who say, "All right, I'm just going to do what you told me to do" — we see a lot of success with them. And who's best at that? Military people. They come in and they're like, "Got it, we'll follow your lead." That's what they're trained to do.

We're not saying don't bring what you've learned elsewhere — we'd love to learn from franchisees too. We're just saying: we've opened a lot of stores and seen a lot of success. At least try what we're suggesting, execute it, and then if there are tweaks that could improve things, bring them to us.

The second is dominate your local marketing. You can't come into this business and expect results without investing in driving customers to your facility. The ones who struggle are not putting time or money into local marketing. Those two things — investment and results — definitely correlate.

The third is engage in the local community. If you see someone wearing a golf shirt and you're not walking up and telling them about your Back Nine and offering them a free hour, that's a problem. You've got to be actively talking, actively selling, engaging with the customers you already have. Get to know them. It's easy to cancel a membership with The Back Nine — but if Alan owns The Back Nine and I know Alan and he's my buddy, it's a lot harder to cancel on Alan than on just a business.

And within that third pillar — go out and sell corporate memberships and bay sponsorships to local businesses. That extra income can make a real difference. It can be an employee benefit, a customer appreciation tool, or a tax write-off for a local business. There are all sorts of angles.

Alan: I love it. That last one — sponsorships from other businesses — I didn't realize you guys did that. How does it actually work?

Darren: You wouldn't believe the creativity some of our franchisees are coming up with. When we first started, the bays were just B1, B2, B3. And one franchisee said, "Why am I calling it B1 when I can get a company to sponsor it and put their name on it?" So I can get $300 a month for having a company name on my bay. Instead of B1, it becomes whatever company it may be. And every time a customer books that bay, they're booking under that company's name.

There's also advertising on the TVs — we usually have one TV dedicated to ads. There are ball sponsors where companies can put their logos on the balls people are hitting. All sorts of creative things you can do in these facilities, and it's been fun to watch franchisees come back and say, "This is what we did." And we're like, "That's a great idea — let's roll that out across the system."

Alan: I love that. Marketing is one area where the franchisor provides the systems and the playbook, but every market is a little different. You have to test things. But there's so much room for creativity, and you can build real win-win relationships where you're helping another business while also driving revenue for yourself.

Darren: For sure.

Alan: Awesome. Well, I really enjoyed having you on the show, Darren, and learning more about The Back Nine, its growth, and what it takes to be successful. Thank you so much for joining me, and congrats on being a Franchise Champion.

Darren: Thank you. Appreciate it. Great to be on your show.